Forum Activity for @Clay

Beth -

Sebastian is right to consult with someone. Starting out, you want to think about the flow of production, from accepting shipments to shipping out. The organization of your space needs to accommodate the flow of materials through the space. You are going to want to separate out the space(s) where un-roasted beans are from the rest of your space (to prevent contamination), and then you are going to want separate zones for hot and cold operations, dry storage, and temperature-controlled storage. This gives you your functional zones.

When it comes to equipment, I can tell you that the place to start thinking is from the amount of production you plan to do. If you need to produce 50kg of finished product per day that suggests one or more different production paths. If you need to produce 250kg per day, then other paths need to be considered. I would not recommend scaling up much past 2 or 4 CocoaTown/Spectra "universals" as it's actually a comparatively inefficient way to go (rather than lots of small "universals" it's best to get equipment dedicated to each step in the process - or go with "real" universals. Real universals will be loud so you should consider putting them some place that can be sound proofed.

I was at Alain Ducasse's workshop and they have a half-bag gas roaster into an antique winnower. They grind the nibs in a colloid mill ( here's a video of what a small colloid mill looks like ) and then put the liquor into a mixer to add sugar to the liquor. The resulting paste is put through a three-roll mill into an old-style Carle and Montanari conche (250kg capacity but they are looking to upgrade to 400kg). With this method they can easily fill the conche in an 8-hour working day.

Think not just in terms of weight of production (kg/day) but also in terms of the number of units. It doesn't take much longer to do 1000 80gr bar than 1000 50gr bars. But think in terms of molds and cavities. If you can fill on average 1 mold/minute with four cavities/mold that's 60 molds/240 bars/hr. 1000, 50gr bars will take about 4 hours at that rate to mold. You don't need a tempering machine capable of tempering 100kg/hr (e.g., a continuous tempering machine with a 25kg working bowl) to reach that capacity.

Until you get into large volume production, cooling tunnels are very expensive propositions. Many small chocolate makers make a "cool room" and you can do this with a conventional through-wall air conditioner and a CoolBot [ referral link ]. Elsewhere here on TheChocolateLife I've posted conceptual plans for a "static cooling tunnel" that several ChocolateLife members have made and are using successfully.

You'd probably do well to consult with someone or buy lunch and pick someone's brains - but here's a quick an dirty shot at some answers before i go out to plow my driveway (again!)

1) Variable. Macintyre type machines will be very loud, the santhas less so - however they're still going to produce a fair bit of noise.

2) Yes. ESPECIALLY important to separate your unroasted from your roasted sections for micro purposes. also the heat generated may interfere with your tempering processes.

3) Options for.. grinding? sure - you don't mention the volumes or the particle sizes you're looking for, but there are plenty of grinders out there such as ball mills, colloid mills, macintyre mills, etc

4) I've never used those models

5) yes, get one if you do high volume. Less than 50 lbs / day consider hand tempering or a savage kettle. they are likely to be expensive.

6) ideally you'll want a 3 zone tunnel, coldest in the middle. the specifics of the length and cooling are dependent upon how much you put into it (i.e. what your tunnels heat load is). fans inside to push the heat out also help.

I am building a commercial space to house my chocolate business and have many questions about machinery. While still a very small business, I am in the process of upgrading to a larger production and have many questions about small scale universals and tempering machines:

1- How loud are these machines and how much heat do they produce? Are certain machines quieter than others?

2- Do people generally isolate these machines in another room?

3- Are there any other options besides cocoatown and santha in the under $10k range?

4- What are people's experiences with the spectra 40 and cocoatown 65 grinders? I was using two cocoatown ECGC-12SL melangers for the last year until they both broke down on me. I am looking at having to replace the stones and the metal arm (which snapped) because the plastic has now cracked in all the places where it attaches to the stones. I am hugely skeptical to invest in their larger machine because I am already out the $1000 I spent on these machines and they only lasted me a little over a year. the motor is still fine, but I think there is inconsistency in the tension which creates wear over time and stresses the plastic, as well as the metal nuts that scrape constantly on the plastic, thereby wearing it completely away. I wonder whether anyone else experiences this? In my conversations with cocoatown I learned that they changed the machine to include new plastic washers, in order to help with the wear on the plastic, but they don't seem to want to compensate me for this on my machine.

5-Any good advice on tempering machines?

6-Does anyone have any good information on homemade cooling tunnels? ...any thoughts on the ideal cooling temperature, should the temp stay the same or change? I am thinking of putting an external thermostat on a freezer and then putting a fan inside, but there is no way to control humidity.

any helpful advice would be appreciated, thanks, Beth

Hi all Happy new year to you. I am currently thinking of starting a new project but have come to a dead end with some thing has anyone ever used sponge cake as a base in chocolates and if so what kind? also was it more successful with dark, milk or white chocolate when dipping many thanks Lynsey

Thank Bart , the size of the chocolate will from 4 cm up to the chocolate bar size , not 2 kg for 1 ps

and what you said , I am looking for something with low investment , till to be expert in that domain

Thank you a lot for you kind of collaboration

Kind Regards

Hassan

Hello Hassan,

Do you mean a product of 2kg? That is a big chunk of chocolate, what dimensions will this be? I've no experience with something that large.

Anything that is rigid enough and can withstand the heat from the plastic, can act as a pattern. I've used wood, plastic, aluminium, cast resin, epoxy coated styrofoam, even plaster for thermoforming.

Obviously a CNC router and thermoforming machine are a professional solution to make this type of mould. But you're looking at quite a large investment in money (guestimate: several thousand dollars) and time (learning how to operate this machinery). I don't have a CNC router (yet!): at the moment I let somebody else do the CNC routing for any shapes I can't make myself.

PET thickness will depend on size, shape and complexity of your design. As you stretch the warm plastic over your pattern, it will become thinner in some places. For some shapes 1mm is ok, for others I use 2mm. E.g for large flat shapes I prefer 2mm, as it is more rigid than 1mm and there is less chance of cooling spots on the chocolate. But thicker plastic will need higher vacuum for good reproduction of small details and corners on the pattern.

My vacuum forming table is giving me good results for what I do, I make moulds for small shapes with simple geometry (largest so far was 20x20x5cm). First upgrade will be a better vacuum pump so I can use thicker PETG.

With thermoforming it is as with making chocolate ;-) There is no foolproof recipe: sometimes things don't work and you don't know why. Then you need some feeling and experience to balance all parameters for good results.

Best regards, Bart

Dear Bart

Thank you so much for your reply and for supported information , yes, I am looking to make the molds in house , for qty 2 kg min for each design , you is it the handmade forming wooden box giving a good result or, to invest in a thermoforming machine ? and which PET thickness can use to get a good result .

and about the 3d mold , you prefer to use CNC router , or there is another solution for that .

Thank you again for your kind of collaboration

Kind Regards

Hassan

Hello Hassan,

Maybe you can expand a bit on your requirements?

I'm not entirely sure if you want to make the mould yourself, or if you want to order them? Is it a complicated pattern you want to make, how many moulds, how many products per mould?

If you want to make something yourself, I'd look into vacuforming thermoplastics. It's not a very complicated process and doesn't need special machines: with basic woodworking skills, some tools and time it's quite feasible to do yourself. I find that PET-G plastic sheet is cheap, easy to work with and produces excellent moulds: they're definetely clean and clear ;-) Be aware that vacuforming has some limitations: it's not suited for every shape and the quality of the mould will depend on the quality of the pattern (e.g. any roughness in the pattern will show on the chocolate) and the quality of your vacuform table (better vacuum gives better reproduction of the pattern).

There are lots of videos on Youtube about vacuforming and building a basic vacuform table, those should give you an impression of the process. Just let me know if this is what you're looking for?

Cheers, Bart

Hello every body ,I am looking to know the best way to make personalized chocolate mold,with clean and clearresult .10xin advance for your help"

Yes. One person told me about a possible different agitator if my inclusions either sink or float. Couldn't remember which way he said. When it was brought up to another person, he basically said we have the only agitator. It is a dark whey chocolate with whey crisp. I was able to to get the chocolate thicker for depositing and which allowed it to grab the crisp through. But my next problem was my chocolate bloomed. Trying to find the happy medium in this machine has been a nightmare.

Diane:

Have you contacted Savage?

What's the inclusion? What's the chocolate?

:: Clay

I have a savage unit. I am using an inclusion for my chocolate. However, in my dark chocolate this particular inclusion only floats to the top and will not dispense out. My chocolate does seem a little to liquid. Any recommendations?

I am from Serbia, little country in Europe. I am 32 and I worked in factory of chocolate dragee. I d like to continue working in chocolate industry(generally confectionery).

Could you tell me what do you work?

May I ask where you are, and what your experience is?

Dear,
I m looking for a job in the confectionery industry.
Please If you can help me send your contact.

Thanks a lot!

How do you find a job in your country?

Predrae, elim vam srene novogodinje praznike!

Poslao sam vam poruku na navedenu e-mail adresu, nadam se da vam je stigla poruka?!

Pozdrav

Zdravo Gorane!Molim te ako imas malo vremena posalji mi na mail Pmiladinovic@yahoo.com malo o tebista I kako radis.mozes mi poslati I telefon I kada mogu da te nazovem.pozdrav I sretna nova godina I bozic.PS Mozes malo pogledati na mom members stranici.

Do you say how I can to find a job in confectionery industry, special chocolate industry?

Hello,

I am trying to do a chocolate recipe which requires a cool spray. Am a bit of a novice at making chocolate and struggling a bit to find one in the UK (london in particular). Any suggestions?

Thank you very much in advance,

Valerie

Miguel:

What equipment you can (and can't get away with) will depend on the amount of production you want to do and what the end product is.

Roasting - you can use any oven, and a comal (a flat steel plate over a fire) is traditional.

Cracking - I've never heard of anyone using a frying pan to crack. If you're making small amounts you can hand peel the whole beans while they are still warm.

Winnow - you can use a hair dryer or you can winnow traditionally by putting the nib/shell into a something that look likes a wok and toss.

You can pre-grind (sort of) in a food processor or coffee grinder. You cannot refine or conche in either of those devices. What you will end up with is a very coarse paste.

You can use the microwave to melt the chocolate, but you will need to know how to hand-temper the chocolate (on a slab).

All in all, you might be able to make chocolate balls for drinking on a small scale this way but you won't be able to make a smooth, creamy, chocolate without investing more in equipment.

Hi Miguel,

Here is also my email

ahenson222@gmail.com

What do you do for a living and how did you get interested in chocolate

I really like bars from the DR and would like to be able to try more bars from there

that I can't get in the states

Thank you so much Adriennne, will look into that.

I know that tempering also plays a part

I make chocolate at home for fun,just melting and then putting in the molds

and at times needs to be near a freg for my tempering is not good but for me that's OK for

I am going to eat any way.

Look up Direct Cacao website for they are having a conference in DR and this will be a good education for you as you are going into this and you will meet the different people in the industry

who deal with this end.If I had the extra money would go just for the education.

Thank you for your interest Adriennne, I will absolutely be happy to let you try my final product after I learn a little bit from practice

Btw, I have some friends in NY, were exactly are you at?

Hi Miguel,

I am on the other end a consumer who has a passion for chocolate and good tasting bars.

Things like this take time and practice.There is much that goes into making bar in the process like the beans

you use,the roasting,etc. but that is not my area. I do like chocolate from the Dominican Republic.

I have tasted many bars along the way and when you are ready later on would be interested in trying yours.

I am emailing from the NYC area.

Thank you for your response Clay.I understand that I could do the different steps like this, correct me if I'm wrong or could use something better.

Roasting: Just any oven.

Cracking: With a frying pan.

Winnowing: Hair Dryer.

Grinding, Refining and Conching: Any Food Processor or even Coffee Grinder.

Tempering: Microwave Oven.

Miquel -

If you look around the site, I think you will find the answers you are looking for. They are not in any one post or in any one category however.

For a more focused description of process and equipment, you might want to take a look over at Chocolate Alchemy - www.chocolatealchemy.com .

The steps for making chocolate (from beans, Hispaniola or Sanchez) include:

- Roasting
- Cracking
- Winnowing
- Grinding
- Refining
- Conching
- Tempering

You will need some sort of equipment for each one of these steps (though most people starting out use a single machine for grinding/refining/conching).

:: Clay

Hello, I'm pretty interested in becoming a Chocolatier and already tried to do some stuff from raw beans (I did brownies and a few chocolate bars that never became solid, I guess because I didn't even know I have to temper chocolate).

I would like you to please let me know what are the basic tools I might need to do chocolate from home, if there's anything that is just optional will appreciate if is clarified on the post. Also If you have links to any YouTube Video or WebPage with tutorials I can follow, please post 'em.

BTW I am in Dominican Republic which makes it easier for me to get cocoa beans and I wish to eventually plant some cocoa, so probably in the future we can do business.

I really appreciate your help guys and I'm glad that I found a forum like this.

John -

Some people focus on price, others size, others fit and finish, and others on the chocolate that is used to make the shells. Another thing to consider is availability - does the company you're buying them from have them in stock all the time? You'd hate to have a big production run in front of you only to learn that the dealer was out of stock for 30-60 days.

In the end, you want the product that works best for what you are trying to achieve. Personally, I focus on fit and finish (e.g., what are the seams like), and how even and how thick is the chocolate shell itself? I tend to prefer thinner shells (as I don't have any control over the taste of the chocolate).

Also take into account production considerations. Broken/sticking shells are another thing to consider and the thinner the shell the more delicate it is and the more vulnerable to breakage it will be in shipping.

My suggestion - try them all and pick the one that works best for you. The investment in starting up is not that huge, all things considered.

My objection to truffle shells already made is that they are (for my tastes) small. I think most if not all are 1" in diameter, and I like a larger piece than that. I actually bought a double mold for making truffle shells, not realizing they would turn out the same small size. Using it was quite an adventure--no instructions came with it, the vendor's online "help" left a lot to be desired, and other directions I found were contradictory. I experimented a few times, had a couple of successes, but it was too undependable for me, and the mold now sits unused.

I too would be interested in the brands recommended by others. I've heard good things about Valrhona. I would be particularly interested if anyone has found a shell larger than 1".

Ibought a few cases of Keller shells to try out. One problem with these is they tend to get stuck in the bottom of the trays, soafter you've filled them and try to pop them out, someget punctured, cracked or completely broken, which sucks big time whentheir filled with liquid caramel. I suppose the solution is to cool thetray andpop them out before filling them, but if that doesn't work, thenI probably won't use them anymore...

Hey everyone!

I plan on buying pre-made truffle shells for my truffles. I'm not sure which ones to get since everyone I talk to has different brands.

What do you guys think about Chocoduc truffle shells?

Also, I seen Keller, Callebaut, and Pastry 1 (Paris Gourment brand) ----> any thoughts on these as well?

Is there really a difference and does it matter which one to get? Do people typically focus just on price?

Sorry if this is a very basic question for you professional chocolatiers out there : )

Thank You!

There have been discussions of this issue on the eGullet forum, such as this one: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/87881-chocolate-champagne/?hl=%2Bchampagne+%2Btruffle#entry1775172

The conclusion was that using champagne itself is rather difficult, and most people use marc de champagne, which according to one writer on that site is a very concentrated flavoring "gel" which pours and smells very strongly of wine.

But according to another link, Jacques Torres makes a champagne truffle, with the following description: "Jacques' Champagne Truffles, filled with Champagne Taittinger, are a mouth-watering combination of milk chocolate, fresh cream and Taittinger Brut La Franaise champagne. These champagne truffles rise above the rest due to their inclusion of real champagne. These are one of the few champagne truffles to do so."

Thanks for your trouble Ashley. I don't have any cocoa butter here, but I'll try this next time.

But hopefully things are under contol again, the first batches look promising: dropping right out of the mould and nice shine. It's probably a combination of things that causes problems:

-I washed the moulds with NaOH, great tip I found on this forum.

-Maybe I was overheating the moulds, I do a more gentle preheat at lower temperature.

-Keeping an even tighter check on the temper of the white chocolate. I guess it was overcrystallizing when I got to the last moulds.

With my fridge I'm not too worried about moisture, this one keeps the humidity low.

Hello all,

I hope I'm not asking something which has been asked before (I did a search), but hopefully someone can help a beginner out. It gets a bit frustrating having to melt back half of your work ;-)

Here is what I'm trying to do:

I made some custom moulds (PETG) of a logo, for casting a tablet. The mould has several shallow cavities (about 2millimeter or 0.1 inch) for different colours of chocolate: small details in dark, and larger area's with white and milk.

First I fill in the small details with dark, then a few larger areas with white and finally milk (using piping bags), tapping the mould each time to get bubbles out and fill the cavities. After filling in the logo, the rest of the tablet is topped off with milk or dark. Total thickness is about 14mm, just over 1/2 inch.

The problem I'm having is a some sticking and 'flaking' of the white chocolate in small spots, ugly! The milk and dark release nice and shiny. I'm a bit stuck: I tried a few things but running out of ideas.

Moulds were cleaned and polished (very thoroughly!) with cotton wool in between.

I believe the temper is ok: the white chocolate sets up nicely. Sometimes it shows some 'cloudiness' or swirls where it comes from the piping bag, maybe it's overcristallised? (Although I try to keep it in control with the heatgun before pouring).

I tried preheating the mould (room temperature is about 19degC), but that doesn't seem to help. Also it takes a lot of time to put all the colours in, so the mould is probably cooled down anyway. Reheating is not really possible as the other colours become fluid again and start mixing when pouring the next colour...

I tried working fast, pouring one colour after another. And I tried working slow, letting one colour solidify before applying the next one (with a quick run of the heatgun in between to make the layers stick together). Fast or slow didn't seem to make much difference in succes rate...

Any tips how to tackle this? Is white chocolate more difficult to work with than milk or dark? And should I work fast, or is it ok to have previous layers semi-solid and then pour a new layer on top?

I'm also not sure anymore what the proper cooling procedure is: should I pop it in the fridge straight away or let it cool down first at room temperature?

Thanks, Bart

Thanks Clay. Much appreciated.

That's my interpretation.

One thing to note is that if you sell (for example) a one-ounce bar and an eight-ounce bar of the exact same chocolate then the eight-ounce bar counts as eight units towards the 10,000 limit.

However, if you use the same chocolate, and make bars with different inclusions or flavorings, then each recipe counts as a unique product, each with its own 10,000 unit limit.